the_trav ([info]the_trav) wrote,
@ 2009-07-08 13:14:00
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www.howstuffworks.com my new favourite website
I'm lerninating electricity!

I now know what 3 phase, 2 phase and 1 phase power is, I now know what a surge is and what a spike is, how the power distribution network works, and it's only a matter of time until I know how plugging too much crap into the one outlet causes problems!

HURRAY FOR SELF EDUMACATION!

Next stop, plumbing, then maybe telephony

(51 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]yobbbo
2009-07-08 03:25 am UTC (link)
I read this book a few months ago and learnt a lot of the same things.

It's fun for us software guys to venture into the physical world occasionally, even if it's mostly just reading about it :)

(Reply to this)


[info]dominitus
2009-07-08 03:30 am UTC (link)
HSW.com is indeed an excellent website.

Must admit though, I preferred having all the things you were talking about explained to me by Kupp over a couple of beers.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]nsanity_au
2009-07-08 03:35 am UTC (link)
Yes but when you actually need to apply said knowledge, you'll need Kupp to explain it to you again and probably once more after that.

Particularly if you only consume said information whilst drinking...

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]dominitus
2009-07-08 03:43 am UTC (link)
a) Why would I need to 'apply' this knowledge, and
b) Why would I need Kupp to re-explain it to me? I'm sure I might forget some of it, but so will Trav. Once you've learned something the method you used to learn it in the first place doesn't have much to do with your natural information retention ability.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]nsanity_au
2009-07-08 04:09 am UTC (link)
My teacher in school told me interesting stats regarding methods of learning vs retention.

What your told/demonstrated is about 3-5%
What you read is 5-10%
What you do is about 50-60%
What you teach is 80-90%

(obviously assumptions are that you're performing the method once, and retention is at a future point in time).

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]archenland
2009-07-08 04:15 am UTC (link)
The two main things you learn how to do in school is:
1. Learn
2. Socialize

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]nsanity_au, 2009-07-08 04:18 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]archenland, 2009-07-08 04:21 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_trav, 2009-07-08 04:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_trav, 2009-07-08 04:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dominitus, 2009-07-08 04:54 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_trav, 2009-07-08 05:03 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dominitus, 2009-07-08 05:09 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_trav, 2009-07-08 06:25 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dominitus, 2009-07-08 06:37 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_trav, 2009-07-08 07:01 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]dominitus, 2009-07-08 07:06 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_trav, 2009-07-08 07:14 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]archenland, 2009-07-08 04:27 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]zenandtheart, 2009-07-08 05:24 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]archenland, 2009-07-08 05:30 am UTC

[info]the_trav
2009-07-08 03:44 am UTC (link)
woah woah, applying? Lets not go nuts here!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]nsanity_au
2009-07-08 04:11 am UTC (link)
Applying can be something as little as recollection at a future point in time.

At least thats who I meant it - I don't expect you to be wiring your house up yourself...

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]the_trav
2009-07-08 03:43 am UTC (link)
I'm a very visual guy. I can have things explained to me 3 or 4 times, and while I'll grasp it for the duration of the conversation, it's unlikely I'll hold on to that knowledge for very long.

Reading and Doing is how I learn things properly.

I also think having beers with Kupp would be more fun than reading about plumbing though, just less easy to get away with in work hours ;)

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]archenland
2009-07-08 03:39 am UTC (link)
Poor trav we knew him well. Pity he decided to do his own rewiring.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]the_trav
2009-07-08 03:46 am UTC (link)
Lets not get ahead of ourselves. For the moment I'm happy to know roughly how many appliances I can daisy chain off how many power boards and what level of surge protection I need

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]nsanity_au
2009-07-08 04:06 am UTC (link)
After talking about these topics with Kupp, the answers are...

1. As many as you want till the circuit trips. (seriously)
2. About 6000 joules worth of surge protection - and that wont do shit against a lightning strike within 3 blocks of your house.

Re a surge protector covering the above - http://www.audiotrends.com.au/more_essential_accessories.htm - Thor A12 Smart Power Board


(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]kupplervati
2009-07-08 04:23 am UTC (link)
He is close to right, you can plug as many appliances into a circuit as you want, and until it trips your fine...

You cannot however daisy chain as many powerboards as you want, because the wiring in a powerboard is not as heavy duty as the wiring in the house. Put simply, the wiring in a powerboard can only handle up to 10A

Being as a standard socket outlet is a 10amp plug, meaning no appliance will be over 10A this would mean if you plugged 4 of said super appliances into 1 powerboard, youd be pulling 40 amps down the cord of the powerboard, thus 4x max power, thus cable will get fucking hot... Possibly melt and cause a fire...

This is why its a bad idea to plug heaters into power boards, because they consume a large amount of power. 2400W heater is 10A that plus your piddly tv and computer will equal somewhere around 3000W, approx 12A.. This process will cause the cable to warm up, but nto nessicarily melt.

Now the question is, why uncle kup does the outlet not trip at its maximum rated current.

Why its simple my good friends, very few appliances run at a full power of 10A, most run at between .5A and 2A, thus you very rarely pull the full power usage out of the cirtcuit. Plus being as you have multiple outlets on each circuit it is safe to pull up to 20 or 30A from 10 or 15 different outlets. Thus you can keep plugging shit into shit on the same circuit litterally until it trips. Most electricians cap a power circuit at 15 or 20A (20 being the most common)

As for surge protection, i can go on and on and on about surge protection, but it will be far too long to read... Your best bet is to sit down and talk to me over a beer, or 3, you may not remember it... but you'll understnd where you stand as far as surge protection goes

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]the_trav
2009-07-08 04:29 am UTC (link)
Everywhere I look I can only see this ending in Kupp and beers ;)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]dominitus, 2009-07-08 04:56 am UTC

[info]archenland
2009-07-08 04:35 am UTC (link)
So running my plasma tv, 800 watt HTPC, PS3, Amp/Sub and Wii all through the same $5 kmart power board is a bad idea? Who would have thought!

The ampage is what trips the safety switches on powerboards right?

Anyone remember LANS Will's house? Every time someone turned on the kettle everyone would lose power. :)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]the_trav, 2009-07-08 04:39 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]archenland, 2009-07-08 04:41 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]archenland, 2009-07-08 04:42 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_trav, 2009-07-08 04:45 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]archenland, 2009-07-08 04:46 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]the_trav, 2009-07-08 04:58 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]archenland, 2009-07-08 05:02 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kupplervati, 2009-07-08 05:32 am UTC

[info]ojtinkerbell
2009-07-08 04:48 am UTC (link)
Hehehehe - all I'm getting from this conversation is the need for beer and innuendo about surge protection.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]nsanity_au
2009-07-08 05:02 am UTC (link)
Didn't we work out that the best you could protect was against spikes under 20A - which is roughly 6000 Joules or something.

Beyond that it was impossible (or at the very least economically unfeasible) even given an infinite amount of money?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)
(no subject) - [info]kupplervati, 2009-07-08 05:11 am UTC
(no subject) - [info]kupplervati, 2009-07-08 05:11 am UTC

[info]hypergirlie
2009-07-08 04:42 am UTC (link)
The best part is, its your house so you can add in more power outlets if you choose!

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]zenandtheart
2009-07-08 05:29 am UTC (link)
hurrah!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]kupplervati
2009-07-08 05:07 am UTC (link)
Uhh,

You guys seem to have forgotten a simple electronic principle, your appliances will never pull more amps then they require...

Powerboards trip via surge protecton, and thats only some powerboards most dont have any surge protection or very minimal surge protection... Or broken surge protection due to kids pressing the button too much...

Also V=IxR is awesome, but what you want is P=VxI

Power (watts/joules) (a watt being 1 joule/per sec)
Voltage = Already established, the power of your house runs at 230 +-10%
Amps = The total power pulled by your appliances...

You can figure out the current used by your appliances by adding up all the watts then deviding it by 240, this will give you your amps... Hence my example being a 2400 watt heater = 10 amps exactly :)

Also yes... beer and kup, is a fucking awesome idea...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]the_trav
2009-07-08 06:11 am UTC (link)
hmm, so If I have 240v's, and a plug that gives me 10a's and a power board with 3 heaters plugged into it, then the board is trying to pull 30a's out of the wall right?
Doesn't that make the V's go up and therefore try to flick the non-broken safety switch which I TOTALLY haven't been idly playing around with When I'm bored?

When will beers happen Kupp? WHEN!?!?!? I have to eat out tonight, but that's about it for the next while and a bit (except Saturday role play down south)

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]kupplervati
2009-07-08 06:42 am UTC (link)
Actually, if you plug 3 heaters by your approximation at 10a each in a powerboard, you are pulling 30 amps through the lead from the powerboard to the wallsocket..

30 amps should trip your circuit protection aka circruit breaker or in your case fuse in about 4 or 5 seconds

In this time your lead will haet up quite a bit... enough to possibly see some smoke...

Your votlage wont differ tho, as in this circomstance your voltage is the constant, the amps are what is increased and the current carrying capacity of the copper cable in your powerboard is whats at fault

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]the_trav
2009-07-08 06:58 am UTC (link)
So in terms of V = IR, I is going up, V doesn't change, so R has to change? Or do you mean V doesn't change because the fuse/breaker changes?

Or is V=IR not in play here? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what I really means

I'M LERNING! LERNING IS FUN!

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]kupplervati
2009-07-08 06:38 am UTC (link)
I am also eating tonight, although perhaps sunday evening would be an appropriate time to discuss some matters at hand...

Friday is anime night and saturday is my mates missus's party... so im pretty packed out this weekend...

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]the_trav
2009-07-08 06:56 am UTC (link)
Well if you're still up for it Sunday arvo/evening just give me a bell when you're on your way and I'll make sure there's brews and possibly foods.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

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